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Template talk:Creature
Spell resistance and Damage reduction A suggestion... IMO spell resistance and damage reduction are empirical enough values throughout the entire default palette to accommodate them in the 'Statistics' section of the creature template, perhaps in a similar fashion as spell casting has been assigned an alternative slot (i.e. spell resistance is simply a numeric value and DR is displayed similar to AB, as 15/+2, for instance... rather than burying them in a supplementary 'Special abilities' text section. Our LAN development group is using both these characteristics as standard filter metrics to paint encounters and create customized blueprints while the players themselves find it easier to digest and compare highly-structured creature stats. In practice, the more filterable/sortable characteristics per blueprint, the easier it is to implement encounter balance choices. We also quantify damage resistances per tables but the variables are so vast, I see no way which a wiki template could easily capture these aspects of the blueprints. Our own creature database has already been built, but I think this suggested format may make future creature articles just a bit more structured and compact for readers. --Iconclast 16:10, May 22, 2012 (UTC) * It's an idea. The rationale for the spellcaster line was that caster level is a direct result of class levels. Thus caster level "fits" the design principle of including the results of class levels rather than mentioning class levels themselves. (Other than caster level, does the exact level in a class really matter? Or is it the consequences of that class level that matter? Given that NPCs do not have to follow the normal feat/skill progressions, exact class levels may be more misleading than helpful.) Spell resistance and damage reduction, on the other hand, are not results of class levels, so they got relegated to the free-form special abilities section. Along with damage resistance and damage immunity, both of which should be moved to the template if damage reduction is. And true seeing is probably a similar attribute. Maybe also a line for general immunities? There are a number of special abilities with prominence similar to spell resistance. --The Krit 16:37, May 22, 2012 (UTC) :* All good points, TK. (BTW, the templates you created are very good and maintain a good structure while presenting a compact, organized presentation.) We needed somewhere in the neighborhood of about 35-40 columns to quantify all the resistances & immunities, though a template could integrate the individual energy types and other damage types somewhat. We ran into trouble mostly on the immunities to specific schools and specific spells which became VERY expansive (need I even mention it? *lol*). The class breakdown matters to calculate BAB,doesn't it? That would be a consequence then. But without both shown, it would be more difficult to extrapolate. A single class creature blueprint I can do in my head (like dragons!) but I must drag out the PnP to determine most multiclass BABs (or write a function to do same electronically). I perceive the skill information as only a rough guideline anyway, NPC-wise. Many BioWare skill assignments seem to be errors, or make no sense to me D&D-wise. Haven't really investigated the relationship between creature abilities/aster level vs. DC so I can't comment on how levels factor in there either, whether spells or spell-like abilities. --Iconclast 17:33, May 22, 2012 (UTC) ::* Class levels matter for BAB, which is then used to calculate the attack bonus shown on each creature article (the exact BAB only matters for determining the number of attacks, which is included as part of the attack bonus). DCs of spells do not depend on caster level, but on spell level and ability modifier. DCs of some creature abilities depend on total hit dice (character level), but none depend on a particular class level. Some feats have DCs that depend on a class level, but I have not encountered/noticed those in a creature blueprint yet (and the DC could be explicitly stated if it did come up, which would save the reader some calculating to boot). --The Krit 18:06, May 22, 2012 (UTC) * I've added spell resistance and damage immunity, resistance, and reduction to the template. A current place to see this is battle devourer. I'm thinking the other stuff can stay in the special abilities section. We'll see how it goes. --The Krit 20:33, June 9, 2012 (UTC) Numerical skills For listen, spot, hide, move silently are you including the size modifier? This factor is not included in a standard skill check, but is including for stealth vs. detect. Similarly synergy bonuses are not included in a standard skill check but will be used with regards to disarming an actual trap (I'm not even sure if the standard AI is set up to do this). WhiZard 21:06, June 9, 2012 (UTC) * Rule of thumb: make the numbers match what a player would see on the character sheet, since that is what the numbers will be compared to. So no size modifier, but yes to synergy. --The Krit 01:33, June 10, 2012 (UTC) Damage vulnerability I ran into a snag in the warrior mummy article. The "-" sign is barely readable when quickly viewing the article, thus -50% immunity to fire looks almost like 50% immunity to fire. Any ideas for having it stand out better (e.g. red colorizing, bolding, etc.). WhiZard 04:40, June 10, 2012 (UTC) :I have added red coloring to the warrior mummy article. Seeing whether it looks good. WhiZard 18:03, June 10, 2012 (UTC) * Right, that would be something to adjust for. Let me see... --The Krit 18:21, June 10, 2012 (UTC) * Formatting for negative damage immunities added. (In addition to the number being red, the hyphen gets replaced by the more noticeable minus sign.) --The Krit 19:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC) Spell immunity I think spell immunity is better suited for the free-form special abilities section. It's not strictly a number like spell resistance is. (You have spell immunity by spell level, by specific spell, and by spell school.) After working in the damage resistance (etc.), I came to the conclusion that the general immunities (including spell immunities) are probably better off not in the template. I know the documentation says that specific spells should not go there, but what rationale is there for that distinction? If some spell immunities are in the template, why -- from a non-technical perspective -- are some not in the template? --The Krit 23:10, June 11, 2012 (UTC) :I was iffy about adding it, and did so because there were a number of creatures I could recall with just spell immunity by level. I will be reverting this and the affected creatures. WhiZard 23:16, June 11, 2012 (UTC) Regeneration I'm wondering which would be better when listing regeneration: "+2 hit points per round" or simply "+2"? Regeneration is always hit points, and I cannot think of an instance in the standard game when regeneration is not per round. One reason to single out these stats is to present them concisely, which makes me think dropping "hit points per round" might be a good move. --The Krit 02:38, June 23, 2012 (UTC) :Now that the default is placed in the regenerate article, I agree. WhiZard 02:56, June 23, 2012 (UTC) White space fix What was the problem that edit 63334 was supposed to fix? That edit merged a bunch of lines together, but the old version should have worked because the line breaks were within tags. If it doesn't work the way I thought it did, I'd like to know what I missed. (It did look right when I tested it a moment ago. What combination of parameters produces the excess white space?) --The Krit (talk) 02:52, July 11, 2013 (UTC) * The old one does indeed work fine. Edit reverted. WhiZard (talk) 01:10, October 30, 2013 (UTC)